Monday, June 25, 2007

What is wrong with Telugu people?

I had some work in the Andhra Bank at Kakinada some years back. I found the forms there for various activities were bi-lingual - in English and Hindi. Now, Andhra Bank may be a nationalised bank but was founded by Late Sri Bhogaraju Pattabhi Sitharamayya and by its nomenclature itself identified with Telugus. It is there only to provide service to its customers. How many in Kakinada need the help of Hindi to be served in a bank? This is nothing but tyranny on Telugus.

I would like to know as to in how many Central Schools in AP, Telugu is taught. Even in project schools, where the employees are not generally transferred, telugu is not taught in quite a few. Students, whose mother tongue is Telugu are deprived of even elementary knowledge of their language. In UP Telugu was supposed to be taught as a third language but is not being taught, I know for sure.

Important buildings, monuments, schemes, etc. are not named after Telugu heroes in AP. Why should we not comommorate our heroes. Why Ambedkar when Sanjivayya is available. Why not a Kannamadasu or Joshua if somebody from a particular community is to be named after?

Why do we oblitrate our own hoary history? Why this official censorship? How many Telugus know about the sacrifices done by Duggirala Goplakrishniah? He stands at par with Subhash Chandra Bose in preferring freedom struggle to joining ICS to which he was also selected. In which syllabus is the Chirala-Perala movement included? How many know about V.B.Raju, an outstanding parliamentarian and epitome of honesty? Are not the erudition, honesty in public life, sacrifices made by giants like Tenneti Viswanatham, Vavilala Gopalakrishniah, Tanguturi Prakasam, Veeresalingam, Joshua worthy of being told to future generations?

Apart from official censorship, there is another aspect at which I wonder. You find Subhash Chandra Boses, Jawaharlal Nehrus, Stalins, Lenins and even Hitler amongst Telugus but alas no Prakasam or Durga Bai! How broad-minded we Telugus are!

We experience the cacophony of hindi patriotic songs on Independence/Republic Days in AP but no Ghantasala or Suryakumari. No songs like Maakoddu yee Tella Dora Tanam. No songs of Garimella. How many know such exist.

I have seen India in its length and breadth but I find this trait peculiar only to Telugus.

Ponder...

Sunday, June 24, 2007

A few questions to Sashi Tharoor

This is one more blog to discuss and debate about which Sashi Thaoor is nostalgic in his artilce in Sunday Times today. I will neither denigrate him nor agree with him but simply pose a few questions.

a) Does he think that there are only fanatic and moderate hindus? What about the secularists who muddy the Hindu waters more than the fanatics?

b) Does 'Staying away' amount to running away from law or not? What is the difference between Q and H?

c) Does the fact that 'nudity was a staple of Indian Art and sculpture for millennia' gives licence to artistes now to create an atmosphere not conducive at the present juncture of 'communal' and 'secular' politics? Is there a voice of sanity or a towering personality who can pull this country out of the present mess? If our traditions of bygone era are to be replicated now, even by a fringe, will it not lead to prosecution or law and order problems? For example Can certain classes of people denied entry into temple as that was the case then? Are we to go into a time wrap or be aware of current tensions and avoid them.

d) In Sashi's opinion, if demolition of Babri Masjid was denigration of Hinduism, then demolition of thousands of temples in India was denigration of which religion? Demolition of Bamian Budha is denigration of which religion?

e) Sometime back, 'The Hindu' today's champion of secularism, started a comic strip in its weekly children's section on the teachings of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). This was not a caricature but a healthy and interesting way of imparting moral education to young minds through parables. There were protests on portraying the Holy Prophet. The secular 'The Hindu' promptly stopped the feature and on top proferred a grovelling apology. Sashi, what is your stand on this episode?

Friday, June 22, 2007

Oral Traditions of India

Men must have been definitely communicating amongst themselves before invention of script. Even after invention of script, which must have been the preserve of the privileged few, record of events, epics, traditions, stories of valour, songs, etc. must have been passed on from generation to generation through oral tradition.

In India even after the advent of script, Vedas were to be learnt only from a Guru though oral rendition and never through reading. One reason could be the need for chaste pronounciation and correct intonation (swara). Another reason could be the selfish desire to keep it the preserve of a few.

On another plane, till the advent of gadgets like phonogram, record-player, tape recorder, etc. music was preserved entirely in the minds of a few and passed on to the disciples through word of mouth. Not only the lyrics, but the entire style (Bani or Gharana) was preserved and carried forward by the Gurus and Sishyas through oral tradition. This is true especially in Indian context because, notation is just not possible as in the case of western classical music, as Indian music, whether Carnatic or Hindustani, is based on Manodharma or innovation on the spot and not put in a straightjacket.

It is mind boggling to realise that there were and are well-versed veda pandits who could chant thousands and thousands of lines from memory even while learning new lessons and practicing what was learnt already.

Likewise, the reportaire of an eminent singer, who can elaborate a raga, brings everything from out of his memory improvising the style and duration for that particular occasion, particular mood, particular audience, is also something to marvel.

Likewise historical events, mythological stories, etc. are sung by illiterates all learnt by rote. There were songs for every occasion and every chore to lessen the burden of the task or for mere merriment. All these are passed on through oral tradition.

The tradition of making children commit to memory is a continuation of this process.
If we are to preserve the vast trease trove of our culture, epics, sagas, language, history, we should nurture our tradition of imparting knowledge by rote. Mere publication or recording alone will simply not be adequate.

One food for thought! How many mothers can sing a lullaby today?

Ponder...

Wednesday, June 20, 2007

The Serious Business of Humour

Today a few extracts from Paul Brunton's 'A Hermit in the Himalayas'

"During all my wanderings in the mystic courts of Heavens, I have yet to notice any prohibitory announcement upon the walls proclaiming that laughter is prohibited."

"After all, it is better to jest and joke about this ephemeral life of ours than to imitate the undertaker. Life wihout its sprinkling of humour is like soup without salt - it lacks savor. We must laugh if life is to be made endurable. If nature has not made us a little frivolous, we would be most wretched. It is because we are frivolous that the majority do not hang themselves."

"Life is mostly tolerable if we are able to laugh at it."

"Humour is a mysterious quality which the gods have given to the fallen mankind as a soporific substitute for the divine exaltation it has lost. It provides an excellent way of liberating oneself from the dismal effects of misfortunes, from drab environments, from unpleasant realities and persons, but above all from one's personal ego. A man who can laugh at himselh has to that extent acquired some degree of impersonality."

Monday, June 18, 2007

Yoga Karma Su-Kaushalam

It should be our endeavour to do any job to the best of our ability. We should embed this thought in our mind while doing even the trivial of routine chores.

Now what is doing to the best of one's ability? How to achieve best results?

First we should have Asana Soukhyam i.e. we should adopt the correct posture, which is least tiring, ergonomic and comfortable. Proper work table, etc. should be ensured.

Most of the appliances are accompanied by maintenance manuals. These should be studied and preserved for ready reference.

We should have all the tools, implements, gauges, etc. readily available like the arrangements made in an O.T. There should be no searching while on the job. We see professional artisans arriving to attend to repairs without tools. Most common experience is their arriving without a ladder when the complaint is attending to fuses, wiring, etc. at a height. They drag expensive furniture and climb on them with scant regard to the damage they cause. Many a time they put themselves into danger. In West it is stated, workers come with all sorts of tools and are well prepared to tackle any need. This is lacking in India.

Tendency to borrow tools is abhorring. One should possess oneself all that may be commonly needed like screw drivers, pliers, hammer, etc. Generally the tendency is to borrow tools, damage them or lose them or not return them without being reminded.

Other common needs like nails, screws, washers, etc. should always be stored and not sought only when there is a need.

Conscious regard for personal safety, safety of others and safety of equipment is another pre-requisite. Elementary precautions like switching off power supply before attending to electrical faults, disconnecting appliances before attending to them, are some examples.

There should be a sort of mental flow chart as to how to approach a problem and solve it. Prior planning and knowledge about the job should be there.

The job executed should be most ideal and not mere patch work. Temporarily solving a problem knowing fully well that the it will recur will not do. We should do a work to our utmost satisfaction let alone the satisfaction of the customer.

The person should be competent to do the job. He should constantly upgrade his skills and be aware of the state of art of the technology involved.

After the job is done, the tools/implements should be thorouhly cleaned, correctly packed and put away in their respective places for easy retrieval next time.

For the uninitiated, they should avidly watch when a professional is working so that they are atleast aware of the job implication and are not short-changed. This will also upgrade their general knowledge, common sense and may be, some skills.

Only right person should be entrusted with the right job. In critical jobs, professionals should be engaged whatever be the cost.

Enjoy solving your problems yourself. Save on time and money. But do a good job. Do no risk safety by handling things you are not competent to handle. But keep on thinking and learning.

Ponder...

Saturday, June 16, 2007

Rationalism and Curse

Rationalism demands a cogent and logicial explanation sans which a belief is treated as superstition or blind faith or even tyranny over the minds of the gullible. In India, Rationalism is mostly directed at Hindu religious beliefs and practices. However, some of the beliefs and practices which apparently cannot be rationally supported had their own secular/mundane/practical/effective purposes.

Curse is one of them.

Before the advent of British to India, as anyone will readily accept, there were no registration offices, no stamp papers, no registration, etc. How then were land/property disputes avoided? How ownership was determined? Was it because of sparce population and abudance of land?

Forgetting about private ownership for a while, if we look at the public lands, like a village tank or temple lands, inscriptions abound where the donor solemnly lays a curse on anyone who tresspasses or grabs against the intended purpose. This is a good evidence that land-grabbing is not a recent phenenomen and that in those days a curse was a good deterrent.

In some parts of Rayalaseema there is a practice that if anyone loses valuables like ornaments due to burglary all the villagers are to throw a ball of dung into a heap and the valuable is normlly recovered in the dung heap without the culprit revealing himself. Anyone violating this system comes under a curse, it is believed.

Even now disputes are settled in the Kanipakkam temple under the belief that the wrong doer will come under the curse of Lord Ganesa if he does not mend his way.

Now with a plethora of laws, courts, registration offices, documentations, litigation has not abated albiet increased manifold.

What is good? Inculcating a sense of irrational belief in curse (if it is possible in these days) or muddle through police stations and legal jungle?

Ponder...

Interacting with Youngsters

With the crumbling of joint family concept, interaction between grand parents and grand children is virtually extinct except for occasional visits. Traditions and values used to be handed down and the grand parents also benefited through a sense of usefulness and pride.

Change is natural. No point in regretting over changes that may not be palatable but over which we have no control.

Apart from the joy that one gets from interacting with one's own grandchildren, one more benefit was the opportunity to interact with those other than peers. When we interact with peers, we hardly imbibe anything new and, especially in old age, there is nothing but exchange of unpleasant experiences, complaints and discussion about health problems. This makes us all the more depressing. This I learnt from a young gentleman today though some vague idea was there in me earlier. But he put it more succiently.

Thus, interaction with youngsters is of immense help, in fact eye-opener, in these days of lonliness amidst the concrete jungles. If your grand children are away, interact with other children. Help them with their studies, if possible, without any monetary consideration. Share their interests. Take care of them if their parents are away. Share confidences. More importantly learn from them because their knowledge is fresh.

Ponder...

Thursday, June 14, 2007

Cadaver/Organ Donation

Many of our Teaching Hospitals face acute shortage of cadavers. This is not a new proble. If we read Richard Gordon's Doctor series, we find that one of the jobs of medical students is to steal graves.

Science has of course developed virtual cadavers/dummy bodies but I do not think these can replace real bodies for the students to appreciate the inards of our body and learn.

Today, disposal of bodies is also a problem. The other day I read in papers that one particular Muslim Graveyard in Hyderabad had put put a sign 'Sorry! No room. Go elsewhere." Wood is scarce and electric crematoriums do not function. Sea burial will be very expensive to hinterland.

Science has also recently progressed to the stage where the eye obtained from a donor after his death can be usefully grafted on 3 persons instead of one. Many other vital organs can give fresh breath of life (literally) I believe four hours time is available after death for these organs to be harvested.

I exhort one and all to seriously consider this and get over their inhibitions and religious beliefs. What better religion could be there than the religion of giving fresh lease of life to others even after one's own death. The relations of the deceased should be conditioned to this eventuality and their cooperation ensured during one's lifetime. Nearest teaching hospital apprised of the decision and immediate intimation given on occurence of death.

Ponder...

Monday, June 11, 2007

Anaayaasa Maranam, Vina Dainyena Jeevanam

Whatever may be the desires of a person during his lifetime, there are only two goals that one should really aspire for (though they are not in his hands) that is a death without throes and a life without being pitied.

In respect of the first goal i.e. death without throes, we can only try to achieve it by keeping our body and mind fit. Regular habits, exercises commensurate with one's age and health, healthy diet and positive thinking may keep our body fit so that we can leave this mortal coil without much of effort on our part and little trouble to others. Lord Shiva also told Parvati ' Sareeram Aadyam Khalu Brahma Saadhanam' i.e. body comes first before attaining the lotus feet of Lord or only if the body is kept fit we can achieve our goal of becoming one with Him.

Regarding the second goal i.e. a life without being pitied, we may not have any control over this, but here too we can make an effort by leading a life of character. It is a sheer chance whether despite exemplary life, we can really lead a life where there is no need for pity from others. A chronic disease is one example.

In life let us maintain dignity, detachment and strength of character and not think of death at all. As nothing touches us after the Atman leaves the body, let us try to practice same state of mind even when the Atman resides in this body.

Ponder...

Friday, June 8, 2007

Cyclone Gunu and Indians

Cyclone Gunu has caused havoc in Oman. Citizens of Oman, who visit Mumbai to have a personal experience of rain, have now experienced a real nightmare. One Indian is said to have perished and about a dozen missing. The real problem is lack of information. Our electronic media gleefully present interviews with people back home complaining our government's inability to give information about their dear ones. I am not belittling the concerns of those back home; but the media should be realistic and should not excabarate the wounds of those already suffering.

Even in this age of communication revolution, things depend on infrastructure and when that infrastructure collapses, what can anyone do? It will take sometime for things to settle down and skeleton services to commence and information will trickle in. No point in blaming the government when the storm is still raging.

Instead of going for the kill by presenting false picture, these channels should create their own infrastructure for such calamities. How many of these channels have sent Ham Radio Operators (who alone can successfully function in such conditions) to Oman? Do they have any panel of names of those who willingly volunteer to render such service. Can't they arrange their passage? Ham Radio Operators had done yeoman service in 77 AP Cyclone and the recent Tsunami.

Media should practice what they preach.

One more word of advise to the Electronic/Print media. They should not show the bodies of victims of road accidents/murders, etc. in graphic/gory detail. It will be very shocking to the relatives of the victims, especially if they are not already aware of the incident. This is nothing but intrusion into privacy and robbing dignity in death. Ethically the correct procedure is to convey the bad tidings personally to the relatives of the victims by deputing a person who can handle such a situation with due sympathy and dignity before giving details. Some of the Telugu channels have been very insensitive in this matter.

Ponder...

Thursday, June 7, 2007

Politeness

Today I had to visit a Hospital. The work also involved getting some endorsement by a particular person. As I stood in front of him, he took no notice that an infirm and sick person is waiting politely for his attention. After about ten minutes, during which time I saw that he is not busy with anything worthwhile, I drew his attention to my presence and he disposed off my need within 2 minutes. I would have been happier had he noticed my presence promptly and asked me to wait.

Why a majority of us have lost our sense of politeness, helpfulness and respect to fellow human being? We expect others to be prompt and polite to our needs.

However, the doctor who attended to me was prompt, patient (as I am slightly hard in hearing), helpful in suggestions and briefed me about everything I need to know since I was a first time visitor.

This confirms that like any other aspect, politeness is also present in varying degrees in all of us but is obscured in some atleast temporarily, due to various factors like overwork, temperment, public-dealing, lack of motivation in work place, etc.

I would request that we constantly evaluate our behaviour vis-a-vis our own expectation from others. Institutions should give orientation training and periodic refresher training to their employees, especially those who deal with public. Training should not be treated as bothersome as the employees will have to necessarily miss their duties during training period. Employees at all levels especially at lower levels should be exposed to training and a sense of self esteem created in them that they are also an important cog in the machinery and that their beheviour can make or mar the reputation of the institution.

More importantly, a great responsibility dwells on the parents to make their children imbibe correct values in their formative years. This would need setting personal examples in their own behaviour and actions. Likewise, in schools, especially at primarily level emphasis should be on discipline, politeness, ethical behaviour through exemplary behaviour by the Teachers.

Standing in a queue and waiting for one's turn, not minding minor irritations, not swearing at others even in trying conditions, not showing undue interest in others' affairs are some of the qualities that we are losing.

For example, in a ATM cubcile, only one person is expected to enter at one time and others should wait for their turn outside. What we see is that many enter simultaneously and peer over the shoulders as PIN is being punched. Nothing bad intented but plain misplaced curisity.

Let us think over. Let us present an ethical, correct and polite personality to others. This will make waves and move people to similar thinking.

Ponder...

Tuesday, June 5, 2007

Did Freedom Ensure a Better Welfare State?

Times have changed. Education and Health were totally in public domain and the responsibility of creation, maintenance and operation of the institutions for these were Government's responsibility except for a few mission schools/colleges or Mission Hospitals.

Today both these vital sectors have been privatised. The results are there for all to see. The quality of education that the haves afford and get are totally out of reach of the have nots. Likewise the government hospitals to which alone poor have access, are over-burdened, Doctors more inclined towards private practice, infrastructure either inadequate or in shambles. My experience has been that in one of the most-reputed teaching hospitals in India, the blood bank is never operational but all around it, scores of pathological labs flourish where the donor has to pay to bleed. It is no secret that these are owned by the doctors of that Teaching Hospital.

The next casuality is water. This natural resource, about which future wars are predicted, have been privatised covertly and overtly. Whether for drinking or irrigation, the poor are at the mercy of the water mafia. The Water Users' Associations in AP are in fact the fiefdoms of the most powerful muscleman of that area.

Roads, bridges and other public utilities are also being privatised in the guise of BOT.

Where will this end? To what extent the abdication of responsibility towards ensuring a welfare state will proceed?

Despite what we read in history books, I am doubtful whether the British - company ruled or crown ruled - were such villains as made out. East India Company commissioned Max Mueller to bring Rig Veda as a publication at its cost! Was this commercial interest? Laying of rail lines in farthest nook and corners without any reasons of commercial profit or stratagic need in those days. I am confused.

The business of any government is to govern and not manufacture of sub-standard things or cheap liquor.

Will we go back to our concept of welfare state? It is not impossible. In Britain, we still see medical facilities provided by the state. Why is the state slowly retreating from each of its responsibilities gradually but surely. Is this to promote so called NGOs and Private hands?

Where lies the remedy? Where will the under-privileged go?

ponder...

Monday, June 4, 2007

Testifying and Confirmation before a person is allowed to hold an office

The other day we saw the picture of an MP behind bars talking to a supplicant police outside. It was indeed a miracle to see the Hon'ble MP behind bars whatever the final outcome of his case. We hear that a good lot of our honourable legislators have either criminal record or have henious criminal cases going on in the courts. Many of the successful ticket aspirants of almost all political parties are not deterred by their ill repute in contesting elections and quite a lot of them elected too.

In US, there is a system of Testifying, where an individual, seeking office or before entering office after getting elected, are grilled live by a panel of eminent/common citizens. A ratification or confirmation is needed before they cross the final barrier to the office,

Why not we introduce this in India through amendments to relevant laws like Representation of People Act. Some of the purposes that can be served are:

a) a genuine filter to eliminate the chaff.
b) live telecast will also sober the panel from going on fishing expedition.
c) No institutional protection like the Speaker of an Assembly or Parliament who can at times save a member from embarassment.
d) No notice as to what will be ferreted out.
e) Panel members can be taken up if they come out with certain pre-known revelations (not touched during hearings) at a later date if the honeymoon/earlier nexus, if any, is over.
f) People having something to hide may not make the bid at all thus eliminating potential blackmail.
g) Elimination of selective trial by media at a later date.
h) Transparency.

This need not be restricted to prospective MPs, MLAs, Ministers, etc. but also cover such political/constitutional appointments like, Chairpersons of Boards, Members of Judiciary, Members of EC, UPSC, Public Undertakings, etc. many of whom have been found to be fit to be impeached or prosecuted.

Eminent public spirited intellectuals can come together and give a concrete shape to this idea and place a proposal before the Government.


Ponder

Sunday, June 3, 2007

Music vs Noise on Television

So many channels dishing out their fare on 24x7 basis inundate us. These are necessarily audio-visual products. Let me request my readers to ponder on the audio part of these. There are many occasions when background score is required to be provided like a cookery show, title graphics scrolling, during a soap etc.

The present trend is to use electronic instruments like drums, synthesizer, etc. instead of traditional instruments like Flute, Veena, Violin, Mridangam, Santoor, Shehnai, etc. Even though the electronic instruments are capable of producing melody, the output generally resorted to is loud and garish.

It hardly needs to be told that the help of Carnatic or Hindustani ragas, which have a vast repertoire of specific ragas for specific moods, are not taken while setting the score.

Take any channel e.g. Gemini, ETV, ZEE, Sun TV, etc., every serial soap must have whiplashes for background score. They are so harsh on ears, monotonous and amount to plagiarism. The irony is that they give themselves annual awards for best this and best that.

The soap producers have to deliver their daily installment of the soap with tight schedule and on a shoestring budget. Hence quality must necessarily suffer. Thus they resort to such shortcuts and there is little scope for either aesthetics or quality. But this can be overcome with a little thought and effort.

The channels are in business for making money and not to promote any particular culture or tradition or our immense heritage. My suggestion is that without sacrificing their commercial interests, these channels can do their bit to our heritage by adopting the following:

a) wherever background score is needed, please use Indian instruments only.

b) Please use soothing ragas, tailor-made for the mood to be conveyed or light music. Even if old hits are used suiting the mood it is not bad or wrong.

c) Encourage and financially support traditional/folk/rare instrument players who are Artistes of great caliber lacking financial support if not in dire straits.

d) Spare the audience from noise pollution.

e) Cultivate and channelize the taste of the laypersons, without overtly compelling them but subtly through non-intrusive soothing music.

Ponder....

Saturday, June 2, 2007

Faith and Conversion

One of the most controversial issues plauging the world today is the so called 'Clash of Civilizations' or the notions about supposed superiority of one's own faith and the inferiority of others. I use the word FAITH instead of RELIGION because one can't be religious without having unstinted faith in it. Max Mulleur states that one should have religion to have a religion.

This phenomenon is unique in its own way as far as India is concerned because the majority of the population is HINDU and this loosely held religion (some Hindus treat it a faith and not merely a religion) is neither bound by a strict code of conduct nor straightjacketed nor needs any particular practices to be called a HINDU unlike some other religions/faiths which have a strict code of conduct, allegience to a particular book and prolesterizing as a duty. Though in recent times, some new cults like Hare Krishna etc have sprung up admitting a non-born into Hindu fold, basically one has to be born a Hindu and cannot be converted to Hinduism. This could be due to the fact that early Hindus were neither geographical conquerers nor were there any religious exhortions to wipe out other faiths on the premise that Hinduism is the only way to salvation and every soul needs to be salvaged which legacy still Hinduism carries. Also despite the varied ways that this religion is practiced there is no insistence in timings, attendance at a particular place, haranguing by the priestly class nor any congregation. One can practice Hinduism within his abode, by visiting a temple at any time without the help of another individual. One can be a Hindu without being religious, the only condition being not converting to any other faith.

One other reason why people of other religions/faiths cannot be really converted to Hinduism or accepted into Hindu fold is the all prevailing Caste factor. With the rigid Varna Ashrma Dharma embedded in the mindset, it will be a contradiction to be a Hindu without belonging to any Caste.

In the above context, the strife we see in some pockets of India between Hinduism and other faiths, as far as conversions are concerned, can be said to be defensive on the part of Hindus and offensive on the part of religions trying to proselytize as a sacred duty enjoined upon them, Ghar Vapasi or re-converting to original faith organised by certain political/religious groups being the exceptions more for political purposes than religious.

Indian constitution does give the right to propogation of one's own religion. But should this be treated as licence?
Kindly ponder over the following:-

a) The religious strife/violence already faced by our country (for no fault of Indians), due to happenings elsewhere e.g. the holy Prophet's caricatures in some obscure european country, visit of President Bush to India, attacks on mosques in middle east, etc.

b) It may be politically correct to quote the constitutional rights, but ethically or morally, is it right to distribute pamphlets exhorting conversions amongst devotees taking a holy dip at Sangam in the early hours of Kartika Poornima?

c) Is it necessary or obligatory to try to build church on Tirumala Hills despite the freedom enshrined in the constitution.

d)Is it correct on the part of Pope to exhort 'Harvest of Souls' when in India and then lament desertion of Catholics to other denominations and try to save his herd?

Ponder...